|
|
Post by Albert on Jun 6, 2012 7:38:17 GMT
If you are for or against that wind farm being proposed near to Appleby, try to find the answer to this.........
The A42/M42/A444 traffic noise is nearly non existant at night even when the wind blows towards Appleby.
During the day any wind farm noise will be completely masked by other noises.
At night time Appleby is dead quiet and any noise tends to keep one awake, especially any variable noise either in pitch or intensity.
So, try to establish what would be the noise level at night when the wind is blowing from the SW (prevailing) and the wind farm is in full sail.
I would suggest that asking the developers and those in favour of the farm will not give you a reliable answer !
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jun 6, 2012 10:56:49 GMT
Albert - "I would suggest that asking the developers and those in favour of the farm will not give you a reliable answer !"And a similar sceptical attitude to the information provided by those opposed to the scheme  |
|
|
|
Post by Albert on Jun 7, 2012 6:30:37 GMT
Well Chris, I live about as far removed from the wind farm as anyone in Appleby, being in the far easten corner , so it should never bother me. But you probaly live closer to it.....I hope you have sweet dreams. Quiet, sweet dreams, that is.  |
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jun 7, 2012 7:52:47 GMT
Albert -
As you possibly know I live on the SW side of Top Street. Our bedroom windows face SW, on hot nights in summer if the wind is from the SW we have to keep our windows closed because of the sound of the traffic on the motorway. A low constant whoosing sound, all night.
So your statement that there is little or no motorway noise at night is only correct from the perspective of where you live. It is not universally true.
In fact the noise from the motorway is worse at night than during the day, when natural village noises mask the motorway noise.
I'm not particularly for or against the (possible future) wind farm at this point in time, but I do get a little aggravated when either side tries to sway my opinion by making unsupportable or inaccurate claims (and insinuate that "the other side" can't be trusted to tell the truth).
I personally don't believe any noise from any possible future wind farm is going to adversely affect the noise pollution levels in Appleby Magna when it is situated the "other side" of the motorway and given its distance from Appleby. If you don't hear the motorway now you are lucky, but if you can't hear it then I don't see how an even further distant (probable low level) noise source could effect you in the manner you seem to be describing.
And at the end of the day there is always double glazing.
Chris
|
|
|
|
Post by Albert on Jun 7, 2012 9:34:59 GMT
I was very surprised to hear of the motorway disturbance you suffer at night.
I can see the motorway from our bedroom window but do not suffer any noise.
Noise is a very variable phenomena, dependant on air temperature and inversion, land layout etc etc. as you say.
I find the best way to establish the truth (if possible) about wind farms is to look at the places where they have already been built and see what the residents experiences have been there.
Hence my concerns for Appleby and my letter.
Also to read what the Noise abatement society's says, although they may be biased ?
The first house in Appleby nearest the proposed farm is 1/2 mile, well within possible noise problems which have been experience up to 1 mile on some locations. Again land layout, wind direction is a factor.
Developers will, understandably, always put the best case forward, and the truth may become fuzzy.
I like to see the worst case as well and there are plenty of those reported around the world.
Google ' wind farm noise at night' etc for example. It was quite an eye opener for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jun 7, 2012 9:44:56 GMT
Google ' wind farm noise at night' etc for example. It was quite an eye opener for me. Yes, but people who say they suffer from "noise pollution" will complain about it. People who don't won't. People will think - I object to there being a wind farm down the road, who do I complain to. Online forums always tend to be populated with people complaining, before or after the event. People do not think - there's a wind farm down the road and it doesn't disturb me - who should I write to. It's human nature. A better measure would be the number of people in a "catchment area" compared to the number of complaints. And I'm not even sure that that would be a totally valid metric. Noise pollution can be very subjective. |
|
|
|
Post by Albert on Jun 8, 2012 7:18:53 GMT
Yes, as you say, noise pollution can be very subjective. The other consideration is the effect on property values. If I were looking for a village to live in and saw a wind farm nearby I would carry on driving by. The Esate Agents description of Appleby at present is something like, " A very desirable village." Not so desirable with a wind farm methinks. BTW, I see our Parish Cuncil has some objections too. (item 1272 in May) Actually I quite like the appearance of wind generators on their sleek towers..........also high voltage pylons too as they march across the landscape.  |
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jun 8, 2012 9:42:54 GMT
Albert -
There will be pro's and con's put forward by both sides. But as I said previously it is when unsubstantiated arguments are put forward as facts to try and influence my opinion that I get a little annoyed.
For example, one of the Parish Councils main objections is -
"Many local residents are clearly opposed to the project."
Quantify "many", no one has asked me, no survey has been done as far as I know, no questionnaire circulated, no one knocking on doors seeking opinions. Clarify "clearly".
In fact what little solid evidence is available would be to the contrary. There seemed to be very strong support in the village (including the Parish Council) for renewable energy as demonstrated by last year's village wide survey. So is this "renewable energy - Yes", "in our backyard - No" ?
So by "many" do they mean many of the Parish Councillors and their own circle of friends ? "Empathetic Selling" is quite a strong marketing tool.
An IMO clearly unqualified statement, put forward as a fact.
Just makes me think they are "inventing" the evidence.
And yes, each sides of the argument will probably be as economical with the truth as the other. But there is no substantiating evidence to quantify the "many" residents, as there is no proof that house prices would be adversely impacted by unseen wind farm towers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Albert on Jun 9, 2012 5:41:44 GMT
Well Chris I wasn't going to take this thread any further but have just found this web site. Scroll to bottom of long page and see photos of what happens when the gear box oil fails. O I'm not at all suggesting that the blades might fall on Appleby so don't get me wrong. Just thought you and others reading this thread would be interested. www.warmwell.com/windfarms.html |
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jun 9, 2012 9:44:20 GMT
Albert -
As far as I know no one has yet designed and built any piece of perfect mechanical equipment. Everything, including the both of us, has an MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure). If it can break, it will break, especially if it has moving parts. That is why design criteria and environmental and safety standards are created to minimise the impact of any (almost inevitable) failure, you just have to do the contingency planning.
I would guess there are 1,000's (if not 10's of 1,000's) of wind turbines already deployed worldwide, but there only seems to be pictures of one in general circulation showing catastrophic failure. The pictures you referenced are not English, possibly American. So (compared to the UK norm) different design of wind turbine ? Different height of tower ? Different size and pitch of blade ? Different build quality ? Different safety standards ? Different environmental standards ? Different wind conditions ? Different planning rules/laws ? How old was that turbine ? How well had it been maintained etc. etc.. Far, far too many unknowns to make any valid comparison, or to draw conclusions of impending doom. One very well publicised incident worldwide in several years, that doesn't sound to be too bad a safety record.
There are a significant number of fatal car accidents in the UK every year, but we all still drive cars - a risk versus reward option.
There are potential benefits to wind farms, and there are also potential downside problems. It's up to everyone to make up their own minds, hopefully based on relevant and substantiated facts.
But this thread seems to be going round in circles a bit, unlike the blades of the turbine in the photo's.
Chris
p.s. I have tried Googling for the repair manual for when my MTBF is reached - but no luck so far.
|
|
|
|
Post by Albert on Jun 9, 2012 10:29:02 GMT
Albert - As far as I know no one has yet designed and built any piece of perfect mechanical equipment. Everything, including the both of us, has an MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure). If it can break, it will break, especially if it has moving parts. That is why design criteria and environmental and safety standards are created to minimise the impact of any (almost inevitable) failure, you just have to do the contingency planning. I would guess there are 1,000's (if not 10's of 1,000's) of wind turbines already deployed worldwide, but there only seems to be pictures of one in general circulation showing catastrophic failure. The pictures you referenced are not English, possibly American. So (compared to the UK norm) different design of wind turbine ? Different height of tower ? Different size and pitch of blade ? Different build quality ? Different safety standards ? Different environmental standards ? Different wind conditions ? Different planning rules/laws ? How old was that turbine ? How well had it been maintained etc. etc.. Far, far too many unknowns to make any valid comparison, or to draw conclusions of impending doom. One very well publicised incident worldwide in several years, that doesn't sound to be too bad a safety record. There are a significant number of fatal car accidents in the UK every year, but we all still drive cars - a risk versus reward option. There are potential benefits to wind farms, and there are also potential downside problems. It's up to everyone to make up their own minds, hopefully based on relevant and substantiated facts. But this thread seems to be going round in circles a bit, unlike the blades of the turbine in the photo's. Chris p.s. I have tried Googling for the repair manual for when my MTBF is reached - but no luck so far. That site is a good read BTW and yes, it's time to let the wind drop on this thread.  Bye. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 18:58:32 GMT
Just to shed some light on Chris's point regarding village support/opposition.
The only firm evidence is that five letters were written to the parish council following their request for views on the wind farm. The councillor who collated them , who is resolutely opposed to the wind farm, reported last Thursday at the meeting that three were in favour of the wind farm and two were raising questions. I happen to know that at least one of the people raising questions is in favour of the wind farm provided certain conditions are met.
There was strong opposition from two parish councillors to the wind farm; one is opposed on the basis that the work will go to foreign companies and the other because wind farms receive a subsidy (through the Feed In Tariff) which will be paid for by people through their electricity bills. Only one parish councillor was openly in favour of the proposal. I got the impression that the remaining three councillors were against the wind farm so there is a clear stance against it from them but they gave no evidence at the meeting that this was based on village opinion and the facts we have so far (Village survey and letters written) would indicate otherwise.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jun 10, 2012 7:41:44 GMT
Basic training for any junior salesperson - "Objections are buying signals in disguise"  |
|
|
|
Post by Albert on Jun 10, 2012 12:14:01 GMT
|
|
