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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 21:56:57 GMT
I note from the latest addition to Appleby History it is suggested that the Co-op was opposite the Baptist Chapel in Church Street. This is incorrect as my Great Uncle Charlie Bates sold his shop to the Co-op after a deal with another buyer fell through. The shop at the end of Church Street was Tunnadines and all the time I ever remember it it was no longer in trade.
I will check notices and proceedings to find out when Brown's Blue had a licence to operate the Clutsam and Kemp contract.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 21:43:28 GMT
I would add that I used to visit the Co=op on a regular basis to collect sacks of cattle feed for my Grandad so am absolutely sure where it was. The Hoggs lived in a cottage behind the Co=op before they moved to Shepshed.
I think Mavis Hicks took over the shop after the Co=op ceased in Appleby.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 13:55:39 GMT
Hi Allan I am in my seventies and as people get older there memories get a little fuzzy at the edges and mixed up, mines not at the stage yet, so I stand by what I wrote about the early 50s.
I accept your memories are right about latter part of the 50’s I am not saying the co-op didn’t move into Bates bakery but if you can’t remember Wilson’s baking bread in this shop you won’t remember the co-op in Tunnadin’s old shop or Smith’s the newsagents. You say you went to the co-op with you granddad to collect cattle food, yes at this time there wasn’t a lot you couldn’t buy at the co-op, I know we had pig food delivered along with the groceries. You talk about your Great Uncle Charlie Bates I take it he laved at Lower Rector Farm that was one of two farms I work at when I was at school, at weekend’s holidays and sometimes when I should have been at school, still that’s another story.
I can’t see how you can say I am wrong where the co-op was in the early 50s, as at this time you was about only five years old, when I wrote the article it was based on my own memories but since you started this debate I have been in touch with family and fiends they all agree about where all the shops was on Church Street, I asks the only person that can bring this debate about the co-op to an end Bill Jordan, who as lived in Appleby all his life, you may know him, he is well know in the village. It was his mothers, which own the house (Tunnadins old shop); it was Bills sister Margaret that worked in the shop. As far as I can workout it was about 52 when they move. It easy to remember events but not to put dates to them, can anyone help?
Walter
P S In the early 50s they started showing films in the village can you remember?
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Post by Chris on Jun 8, 2011 16:02:09 GMT
It seemed reasonable to me that the best people to know where the Co-op was on Church Street would be the Co-op themselves. So after a little digging around and a couple of emails I have received this response from an archivist at the National Co-operative Archives in Manchester ...... I asked if they knew the property's full address, particularly the street number ....
"I have checked the co-operative directories but in here it is just listed as Church Street. I have looked through the minute books and in April 1952 a note states “Resolved that the action of the General Manager and Secretary in purchasing the property known as the Stores, Appleby Magna, for £3,375 be confirmed.” I have also checked the reports and balance sheets but again it does not state the property number."
In response to a follow up question the archivist also stated ....
"From what I could find this is the first mention of a store in Appleby Magna. The directories were published every few years and list each society and their premises. The first mention of a store in Appleby is in the 1957 directory. The previous directory is 1951 and no mention is made of Appleby. I checked the minutes between 1951 and 1957 and the first mention I could find was the excerpt from April 1952."
So it appears that the Co-op was established in Appleby in 1952 (buying a property which had been known as The Stores), but not even the Co-op themselves now know exactly where the shop was located in Church Street.
Back to square one on location.
As to when the store closed, the Co-op archivist provided the following information ......
"The last directory that the store appears in is in 1966. In 1969 Coalville CS transferred engagements to Leicestershire CS. The next directory after 1966 is in 1972 and at this point there isn’t a store at Appleby Magna. So it appears to have closed at some point between 1966 and 1972. It is most likely that it closed some point after transferring to Leicestershire CS."
p.s. For interest £3375 in 1952 is today worth nearly £68,000.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2011 18:28:39 GMT
Thanks Chris for your input, you and the co-op both say the co-op first came to Appleby in 1952. As I said I thought that was the year the co-op moved into Bates old shop, I bet Allan saying one up to me, but as said before I think he was to young at this time to know all that was going on. What I would like know is what happened to the shop when the Bates family moved out to Lower Rector Farm before the war ended, as told by Anne Silins nee Bates, one of Allen’s relatives. All I know is Wilson’s run the bakery and shop when my family moved to Appleby in 1950, I still say the co-op was in Tunnadine’s old shop first as do my family and friends. I was talking two ladies in Appleby this week a little older than me and they remember it being there, my only problem is I have no way of proving it, only by the memories of people living in Appleby at this time.
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Post by Chris on Jun 12, 2011 22:17:45 GMT
Walter - all this is long before my time - in Appleby at least.
The only other thing I can suggest is to try the Sir John Moore Foundation. I exchanged emails with Deana and she says they have photo collections including shops in Appleby. Deana has said that anyone is more than welcome to drop into the Foundation and browse through the collection. I think many of the photographs may have been provided by Margaret Cater, who I suspect you already know.
You never know - one or more may show the Co-op. Only one way to find out ........
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2011 10:45:13 GMT
There is no record in N & P regarding Browns Blue operating a Contract Hire for Clutsam & Kemp so it must have been run on a Private Hire basis.
Cath Richardson has confirmed that the Co-op was in Tunnadines old shop for a short time - they leased it from Mrs Radford.
A man called Allen took Bates' shop at the beginning of the war, but he was caught swindling the sugar ration - they called him the 'Swiss Roll King' and he eventually got caught and went back to prison fom whence he had just come when he took the shop.
The Wilsons took over until the Co-op bought the shop in 1952.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2011 19:39:48 GMT
Mrs Radford was Bill Jordan’s mother.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 12:22:19 GMT
I've been lucky to find out a lot more about bus services to Appleby, some pre 1939. As part of my continuing research can anybody give me a date when mains water and sewerage were laid in the village?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 15:10:54 GMT
Walter Ellis asked on this message board about the DATE FOR PHOTO FOCUS 22 BLACKHORSE (one of my articles). In discussing it he says that the year when the water mains were put in was 1952. Suggest you read what he says for yourself. Richard
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 16:24:24 GMT
Have now confirmed that Brown's Blue ran five buses on works service to Clutsam & Kemp's Elastic Factory at Coalville from various locations - The Appleby one may have started elsewhere at some time but the services were altered to suit the workforce.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 16:40:33 GMT
I must have been around when both the water mains and the sewerage were put in as I remember a sort of rotating bucket type of excavator being used for the water mains. The sewerage pipes were much bigger and a Ruston Bucyrus 10RB complete with Fordson engine in the back was used. I'm still puzzling over the bus diversions which I am sure took place whilst the sewerage work was going on. I seem to think now that the 697 bus ran in via Snarestone, reversed at the junction of Top Street and Snarestone lane and then returned via Snarestone whilst Mawbys Lane was being done.
More accurate dating would help. I think that the ariel view of the Black Horse is post sewerage as you can see the manhole covers in the road.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 8:11:13 GMT
I'm doing further research into Transport in Appleby bringing the story more up to date.
One afternoon in the 1970s or 1980s I was driving towards Appleby from Snarestone when if my memory is correct I passed a Midland Red double decker going in the opposite direction. Now by that time low bridges at Snarestone and Measham had gone but there was still the one at Ashby so I just wonder what the bus was doing as it may not have been operating the usual local 722 route.
Anybody remember seeing a double decker in Appleby?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2012 2:51:38 GMT
Message for Allen Condie. I believe we are related by the Rowland family. I am Anne (Bates) Silins writing to you from Vancouver Island, on the West Coast of Canada.
My memory of the 1 st. Co-Op shop in Appleby was that it was almost opposite the old Baptist Church in Church Street. I left Appleby for B.C., Canada in May 1951 and I was in that shop twice before I left. Later I believe the Co-Op did move to my Grand father Charlie Bates' earlier shop which was closer to the Church, at the bottom of Bowleys Lane.
You are quite correct about the photographs of "Rogation Sunday". The date is 1946 - definitely NOT 1936 as it says in the web site article. I am in some of those photographs, one of the many I have but it does not appear in the article, I am the little girl, in Brownie uniform standing at the back of the group of Girl Guides and Brownies and I am biting my nails, as I did at that age. I see Sally (Stevenson) Hicks, close beside me, also in that photograph. I can not understand why this has not been corrected as I wrote to the Appleby web site nearly 10 years ago. I was born in 1937, therefore I am sure that the date given for that article is incorrect. I do have copies of the photographs shown in the article and I am visible in several of them.
I do think this is a marvelous web site and it is filled with items and history of great interest to anyone who had anything to do with Appleby Magna. "Hats off" to Marilyn for her hard work.
Even though I left Appleby 61 years ago, at age 13 years, I remember it all well and I have only very happy memories of my early life living there. Whenever we are in England which is once a year of late - as we have a son representing Canada with technical expertise for the London Olympics, we always spend a day in my 'home' village.
Thank you Appleby Magna web site for allowing me to answer a few comments in the Information Exchange. Anne (Bates) SILINS
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Post by Joan on May 12, 2012 13:10:01 GMT
Hello Anne.
You might be intersted to know that in our kitchen in Botts Lane is an old framed calendar dating back to 1904.
It was printed for, and has his name on, " Charles Bates, Baker, Grocer and Provision Merchant " He might have been your grandfather, certainly your father though. The picture is far removed from Appleby, being that of an Australian bush fire.
I daresay your grandfather thought that this dramatic picture would attract attention to his store.
Nellie Winter, of the Alms houses gave me it before she died. You may also recall her and her brother, Fred.
I remember both your father and grandfather. I took frequent holidays in Appleby, both before and after WW2.
If you let me have your email privately I can send you a photograph of it.
My email is Animation @ btinternet.com (close the anti spam @ gaps)
You may well recall my own family too who lived in Rose Cottage, Appleby Parva. Uncle Ron, who at one time was the village postman, and my aunt Edith. My grandfather lived there and was a shoe repairer.
We now live in Sybil Saddington's old house, again she may well be someone you recall. Many years ago I went round the village as a little girl, helping Mr Clamp deliver milk to the village. That was before your time though ! Regards Joan.
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